Phenom and backwards (non)compatibility?

[libtech]

/BEGIN RANT
So AMD awhile back was toting how bios upgrades would ensure a majority of more recent am2 motherboards to be am2+ / phenom compatible.

I strongly disagree with their marchitecture / selling point. It seems to be the majority of am2 motherboards don't have the necessary bios updates or requirements to run the new phenom processor.

This is relative to Intel's LGA775 which while not advertised as extremely backward/forward/yadadada compatible, has shown to be handling P4's, Core Duo, Core 2 Duo, Core 2 Quad etc....

AMD is SERIOUSLY losing my support... and people will always suggest that I get a new mobo, well if I do that then I might as well go intel which is better in terms of temperature/power consumption/speed right now... and is in reality very upgradable.

(I mean think back to AMD again: oh socket 939... oh shoot no we changed our mind let's go socket AM2 (940) with same processors, but that forced people to switch mobo's...)

/END RANT

[Labyrinthine]

Yeppers. It goes in cycles. AMD was on top with 939 and now Intel is enjoying the throne.

Intel will flop soon when AMD pulls something awesome out of their butts and we'll be back to square 1.

[halloween]

Don't know if that's gonna happen.  Company is definitely on a downhill slide.  Gonna be hard for them to dig in their heels and start releasing quality stuff again.

[libtech]

Even if they do pull something awesome, it will probably be socket AM 3.25+ and will not be compatible with anything that everyone has purchased this year from them. It's not the lacking performance that I mind, but the fact they use forward/backward compatibility as a selling point...

This is an exerpt from Wiki about processors supported by LGA775. (And I do understand OLDER 775's won't be able to run core duo's, but still.....)

"Processors    Intel Pentium 4 (2.66 - 3.80 GHz)
Intel Celeron D (2.53 - 3.6 GHz )
Intel Pentium 4 Extreme Edition
 (3.20 - 3.73 GHz)
Intel Pentium D (2.66 - 3.60 GHz)
Intel Pentium Extreme Edition
 (3.20 - 3.73 GHz)
Pentium Dual-Core (1.40 - 2.40 GHz)
Intel Core 2 Duo (1.60 - 3.00 GHz)
Intel Core 2 Extreme (2.66 - 3.00 GHz)
Intel Core 2 Quad (2.40 - 3.00 GHz)
Intel Xeon (1.86-3.00 GHz)
Intel 'Core' Celeron (1.60 - 2.00 GHz)"

Note how many generations that socket branches.

[mikehale]

amd has access to some crazy stuff ibm developed that might let them compete.

[Jedakiah]

[logicaL!]

Actually on the flip-side Intel is screwing all their customers who bought the P965 boards expecting to be able to upgrade to the latest and greatest C2D's. Now they are screwed since the new E8x00/Q9x00 are 1333FSB, but the P965's don't officially support it.

[libtech]

Actually on the flip-side Intel is screwing all their customers who bought the P965 boards expecting to be able to upgrade to the latest and greatest C2D's. Now they are screwed since the new E8x00/Q9x00 are 1333FSB, but the P965's don't officially support it.

Don't wish for the greatest and fastest of the Phenoms. Just wish to use even one of the processors. Majority of recent LGA775's are capable of utilizing SOME of the C2D's.

Obviously many motherboard makers wouldn't release the update.  That is why you buy quality motherboards from reliable manufacturers, well that and the fact that your motherboard is the most important part of your computer.  They can have far greater impacts on performance and stability than most people realize. 

Sir, just because Intel has used the same socket set for years does not at all mean that your CPU will work with your Motherboards Chipset.  Especially in a stable fashion.  The nice thing about the old days was the constant release of new socket sets so that people wouldn't confuse "it fits" with "it works". 

In the end, AMD did make a great move with forward compatibility.  But to take advantage of it the buyer had to of thought a year or two ahead, or just get lucky.  And yes, if you purchase a AM2+ CPU it'd be good to upgrade your board.  But again, the buyer should know that because the newer boards have newer features.  And without those features you aren't utilizing your CPU's full potential.  Though it still runs fast. 

I have an ASUS motherboard, arguably a major and reliable motherboard manufacture. I don't again mind not having all of the features of the phenom and still fail to see how AMD's processors are RELATIVELY MORE backward compatible THAN Intel. (As AMD's previous advertising tried to promote)

It's the RELATIVE argument i'm driving at and the cause to my frustration.

[Jedakiah]

Are you confusing the two different types of "forward" compatibility?  To my understanding newer Intel boards can run new Intel processors, and generally speaking the older ones as well though stability is called into question.  But why would you want to run a new board with an old processor?  You sacrifice stability and do not gain performance (I wouldn't think). 

AMD on the other hand allows you to do that plus run a new processor on an old board.  Which does have actual advantages, and I haven't heard complaints of instability - though I haven't researched that.  Plus you also have the guarantee that you will be able to utilize processors that are a year or two out on your same board.  But with Intel you will only be able to run this generation of processors without a MB upgrade. 

As far as your board goes, I gather it doesn't have a BIOS update.  Can I get a model number?  Still might be able to help...

[logicaL!]

Don't wish for the greatest and fastest of the Phenoms. Just wish to use even one of the processors. Majority of recent LGA775's are capable of utilizing SOME of the C2D's.

Lib you are still missing the point. Both Intel and AMD are in the same boat. There is nothing they can do, they are relying on the Manufacturers of the boards to release an update. Your anger is pointed in the wrong direction. 

[Mongoose]

Just be glad you didn't buy during the wonderful 754 days.  I swear it was like 2 months later and it was harder to find than socket A.  Still works though and the fact that it can't handle the super cool shiny new stuff just saves me money.  Plus I can still own keela(that's his cholo name).

[libtech]

Don't wish for the greatest and fastest of the Phenoms. Just wish to use even one of the processors. Majority of recent LGA775's are capable of utilizing SOME of the C2D's.

Lib you are still missing the point. Both Intel and AMD are in the same boat. There is nothing they can do, they are relying on the Manufacturers of the boards to release an update. Your anger is pointed in the wrong direction. 

Yeah I guess you are right... (Though the old LGA775's not being able to support Core Duo/C2D was mainly due to the FSB speed difference, which is more than just a bios update away) Just wish they'd PUSH for some chipset bios upgrades for still viable boards. I mean it's wrong the other way to say AMD or Intel has completely NO LEVERAGE or SAY in what the motherboard manufacturers do.

I understand they are in the same boat. But AMD's argument stating they are doing something new in compatibility (when they've forced consumers to upgrade through what is now 3 iterations of chipsets using primarily the same memory speeds/FSB 939->AM2->AM2+ all use DDR2 v. early LGA775 used DDR->later LGA775 which uses DDR2) is ridiculous compared to Intel's more recent LGA775 chipsets. (if you supported Core Duo, you can get Core 2 Duo working almost guaranteed, a worthy upgrade wouldn't you agree?)

Just be glad you didn't buy during the wonderful 754 days.  I swear it was like 2 months later and it was harder to find than socket A.  Still works though and the fact that it can't handle the super cool shiny new stuff just saves me money.  Plus I can still own keela(that's his cholo name).

Heh i know how you feel, I played around with a mobile Athlon 64 in a desktop board for awhile (socket 754) thinking it will last... Was I wrong....

[Jedakiah]

[libtech]

k lol, 2 wasted generations then

[logicaL!]

Don't wish for the greatest and fastest of the Phenoms. Just wish to use even one of the processors. Majority of recent LGA775's are capable of utilizing SOME of the C2D's.

Lib you are still missing the point. Both Intel and AMD are in the same boat. There is nothing they can do, they are relying on the Manufacturers of the boards to release an update. Your anger is pointed in the wrong direction. 

Yeah I guess you are right... (Though the old LGA775's not being able to support Core Duo/C2D was mainly due to the FSB speed difference, which is more than just a bios update away) Just wish they'd PUSH for some chipset bios upgrades for still viable boards. I mean it's wrong the other way to say AMD or Intel has completely NO LEVERAGE or SAY in what the motherboard manufacturers do.

I understand they are in the same boat. But AMD's argument stating they are doing something new in compatibility (when they've forced consumers to upgrade through what is now 3 iterations of chipsets using primarily the same memory speeds/FSB 939->AM2->AM2+ all use DDR2 v. early LGA775 used DDR->later LGA775 which uses DDR2) is ridiculous compared to Intel's more recent LGA775 chipsets. (if you supported Core Duo, you can get Core 2 Duo working almost guaranteed, a worthy upgrade wouldn't you agree?)

Just be glad you didn't buy during the wonderful 754 days.  I swear it was like 2 months later and it was harder to find than socket A.  Still works though and the fact that it can't handle the super cool shiny new stuff just saves me money.  Plus I can still own keela(that's his cholo name).

Heh i know how you feel, I played around with a mobile Athlon 64 in a desktop board for awhile (socket 754) thinking it will last... Was I wrong....

Actually a lot of non-P965 chipsets not working was the fact that they had the old PWM (Power), which didn't support the lower voltage C2D.

Everything from the 845 to the 975X (in terms of years) most likely wouldn't be C2D compatible (the earlier ones due to FSB+PWM, the newer just cuz of PWM).