The Juice

[misslissa]

15 years baby!!!!

Granted, this was just on his memorabilia charge, but do you think he got too much for just that crime, or did the sentencing have the weight of the double murders?


needless to say, i am happy with the outcome. im sure we'll see some dateline special to follow with him in his orange jumpsuit. diane sawyer is gonna be tough on him

[Powdered!]

THE RISE AND FALL OF AN AMERICAN HERO

TUESDAY AT 9 PM EASTERN

[ariel]

going to be appealed and at least reduced, you can get 3 years for homicide and 15 years for this, it's obvious they only pushed on this because of his past history

IMO the kidnapping charges are bullshit too, its kidnapping because he didnt let them leave? Shouldnt every armed robbery have a kidnapping charge also then because the dude with the knife/gun isnt letting you leave? I'm guessing review of the Las Vegas D.A's office will show they rarely if ever prosecute armed robbery suspects with kidnapping charges.

Look he killed his wife and got away with it, power to him she was a bitch and I'm not losing any sleep with it. BUt the way our legal system works is that since he was acquitted that record cant be used against him, in the eyes of a criminal court he is innocent. Thus if justice is blind he should be treated like others accused of armed robbery instead of getting gangbanged by some DA looking to make a name for themselves by "Settling the score" with simpson.

[misslissa]

it is considered a form of kidnapping if you hold someone against their will.
why is that bullshit?

if jaminz forced you into a car against your will and you couldnt leave because he wouldnt stop the car or let you out, why shouldnt you be able to press charges?
same thing applies.

with regards to what you said about his exwife, (they were divorced when he killed her) i dont blame you for not losing sleep over it, but saying shes was a bitch and insinuating that she deserved it... not so sure you have your head on straight.

[ariel]

it is considered a form of kidnapping if you hold someone against their will.
why is that bullshit?

if jaminz forced you into a car against your will and you couldnt leave because he wouldnt stop the car or let you out, why shouldnt you be able to press charges?
same thing applies.

with regards to what you said about his exwife, (they were divorced when he killed her) i dont blame you for not losing sleep over it, but saying shes was a bitch and insinuating that she deserved it... not so sure you have your head on straight.

I'm saying the charge of armed robbery and thus the punishments on it already implies that you are holding the person against their will, no one is free to leave during an armed robbery. It would be like charging someone with armed robbery and regulary robbery for the same crime because the person got stuff taken from them.

Do rape charges automatically include kidnapping charges? Are they saying the rape victim wasnt held against their will? This isnt the purpose of the kidnapping charge in my opinion. Kidnapping involves holding people against their will for the purpose of detaining or past the duration of other crimes committed thats when its kidnapping.

All I'm saying is the charges arent usually bundled together, the only reason they did so was because of who he is which isnt something our courts should be doing.

And no one leaves the juice, no one.

Seriously the reason I dislike Nicole / Ron is more because the way their families have used their murder for their own celebrity. They're like the Ramsey parents we get it a tragedy occurred in your family. That doesnt mean you need to go take money to appear on tv shows, ghost write a book and hold press conferences.

[The Grandfather]

I think he was innocent. Not to start a battle but the media usually only gives you their side they want you to hear. Its apparent that the police screwed up trying to frame the guy and at the same time set him free. Dumb bastards if you ask me. Remember the words innocent until proven guilty and the jury dealt with the words "beyond a reasonable shadow. I think thats how it goes anyways. Close enough you get the jist.

[Powdered!]

well i was there when it happened, and i think that

[ariel]

The Supreme Court this year overturned a jury's guilty verdict on kidnapping against
Juan Garcia, a Las Vegas man who robbed an auto shop in 2003. During the robbery,
Garcia restrained two victims with duct tape, but the Supreme Court ruled that was
not enough to sustain a kidnapping conviction. The Garcia ruling followed an earlier
state high court decision that sought to better define kidnapping.

To support a kidnapping conviction, the court ruled in Mendoza v. Nevada that movement or
restraint of victims during a robbery "must substantially increase the risk of danger to the victim
over and above that necessarily present" in a robbery.



i'd be really surprised if everything holds up on appeal

[misslissa]

i really dont think the families have asked for 'celebrity status' from the news hounding them and asking for their voice. the media did that to them. they didnt do that to themselves.

my bf knew ron goldman. said he was a really nice guy and couldnt say a bad thing about him. 
so to just automatically dislike someone you would have only gotten to know through the media and their family is being a bit naive, dont you think? or is that just the way you roll?


innocent until proven guilty, sure.
he covered his ass very well.

the media didnt tell me how to believe in the situation or others.
the media told me that the Ramsey parents were killers. i never believed they did. and they were exonerated.

[Mongoose]

It's been a while since I read over the accounts of what happened but I believe they didn't just bust in pull out guns take the stuff and then leave.  They stayed for a bit and kept the people there with them, that's kidnapping as defined in that case you just cited in that it raised the danger to these people.  The robbers already established the robbery then stayed and pointed their guns at them some more for good measure.  To compare it to your rape question, the rape would not be kidnapping but if afterword the rapist kept the victim restrained whilst he hung out for a bit then yes that's probably gonna get a side order of kidnapping.

As for nicole and ron, you realize you are judging the dead by your media skewed vision of the living.  Would you be vindictive if a loved one of yours was murdered and you were completely convinced that a man aquitted was the killer?  Pretty sure I'd be quite the dick to the guy and try to make his life hell.  It'd be great to have jury's and judges that are as impartial as you want to be, although your comments lead me to believe you may have some sort of prejudice against prosecutors and may not be as impartial as you sound at many other times in your comments.  I'm not convinced that you have such prejudice as you did appear to then go look to see if there was history of such charges as kidnapping being added to crimes with a similar nature.

[ikonoclast]

with regards to what you said about his exwife, (they were divorced when he killed her)

<a href="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=7979355645460816565" target="_blank">http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=7979355645460816565</a>

[ariel]

i really dont think the families have asked for 'celebrity status' from the news hounding them and asking for their voice. the media did that to them. they didnt do that to themselves.

my bf knew ron goldman. said he was a really nice guy and couldnt say a bad thing about him. 
so to just automatically dislike someone you would have only gotten to know through the media and their family is being a bit naive, dont you think? or is that just the way you roll?


innocent until proven guilty, sure.
he covered his ass very well.

the media didnt tell me how to believe in the situation or others.
the media told me that the Ramsey parents were killers. i never believed they did. and they were exonerated.

They are looking for the celebrity status, there are plenty of relatives of victims in "celebrity cases" who dont continually make themselves visible for the next fourteen years. Going out and busting the heisman on tv = celebrity status, going on Dr.Phil= celebrity status publishing the book "If I Did It" after they all went on tv and condemned the publication company for all the pain it brought their families= looking for celebrity. I guess the money from the book was worth a little more than the pain to them. Oh but they donated a portion (cant find how much, who wants to bet its more than 50%) to the ron goldman foundation.  (which all the family members are members of the board and receiving pay checks). I'm sorry but the way they have handled themselves the past years just makes them look disingenuous. Do you know who Nicole's parents are? I didnt I had to look it up. I know who fred goldman is though and that is just the way he wants it.

you dont believe the ramsey's were involved in jon benet's murder do you believe simpson was involved in goldman/browns?

 

[ariel]

It's been a while since I read over the accounts of what happened but I believe they didn't just bust in pull out guns take the stuff and then leave.&nbsp; They stayed for a bit and kept the people there with them, that's kidnapping as defined in that case you just cited in that it raised the danger to these people.&nbsp; The robbers already established the robbery then stayed and pointed their guns at them some more for good measure.&nbsp; To compare it to your rape question, the rape would not be kidnapping but if afterword the rapist kept the victim restrained whilst he hung out for a bit then yes that's probably gonna get a side order of kidnapping.

As for nicole and ron, you realize you are judging the dead by your media skewed vision of the living.&nbsp; Would you be vindictive if a loved one of yours was murdered and you were completely convinced that a man aquitted was the killer?&nbsp; Pretty sure I'd be quite the dick to the guy and try to make his life hell.&nbsp; It'd be great to have jury's and judges that are as impartial as you want to be, although your comments lead me to believe you may have some sort of prejudice against prosecutors and may not be as impartial as you sound at many other times in your comments.&nbsp; I'm not convinced that you have such prejudice as you did appear to then go look to see if there was history of such charges as kidnapping being added to crimes with a similar nature.

The total event took between 5 and 6 minutes, they recovered 600-700 items of memoribilia. It doesnt sound to me that they stuck around for a kidnapping charge. Also I dont believe danger to the victims was increased in this case. 5-6 minutes 6-700 items. It would take awhile to a.) get everything together and b.) pack it up. Since the robbery is already "armed" the danger from the guns was already accounted for.

It's not a prejudice against prosecuters but I believe that our justice system is more interested in convictions than justice or the defendants right. I've had some experience with the law, I did some hourly discovery work for a lawyer in town, my mom's a lawyer I had a slight "run-in" with the law and I have a general idea of how the system works. A prosecuter will tack any charges they can onto a defendant wether the evidence is there or not in order to try and get guilty plea bargains to keep their conviction rate high. When you are faced with a charge that carries the possibility of life in prison and are offered a deal for 3-5 years you might consider taking it even if you are innocent (if you dont believe me look at all the false confessions that are coming up). Something like 57 1st degree kidnapping charges were brought up in Las Vegas last year resulting in 3 max sentence convictions and something like 4 reduced sentence convictions. Not exactly a great rate, the others plead to lesser charges or the charges were thrown out by the judge/dropped by the prosecution.

As to my run-in I was initially charged with a felony carrying a mandatory prison sentence which got reduced to a misdemeanor by the judge and then dropped all together. I do have a nice court record even after expungement now thanks to the fine police and DA.&nbsp;

if you havent seen it before:

<a href="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-4097602514885833865" target="_blank">http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-4097602514885833865</a>

i wish this was around then

[Duracell]

In all fairness though, it was his stuff.