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Author Topic: ZeB` Gets Banned?  (Read 3160 times)
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b.ho
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« Reply #90 on: February 25, 2008, 05:41:02 PM »

yea like some crazy opg member coming to hurt/rape/pwn/breakurcomp/lol@u/ect .and im not kidding since we got some crazies here.(watch out for the senators).

GL HF

Says the user with a 'u gonna get raped' avatar.

LOLOLOLOLOL!!!
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staby
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« Reply #91 on: February 25, 2008, 05:57:16 PM »

How is defy still around?
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Jedakiah
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« Reply #92 on: February 27, 2008, 04:35:54 AM »

I want you to record in OPG's pub and upload all demos once a day.  This will grant you rights to be unbanned.  The demos will be matched with the time played in the stats.  If one is missing.  You will be banned.  If you don't keep your score up to where it normally is, you will be banned.  If the demos look fishy.  You will be banned.
I love that idea, oPg should implement it in our standard policy.  It gives people a fair chance to prove they don't hack.  Especially if they're allowed to choose the times (within reason) that they play, because this gives them the opportunity to leave and come back if they're having a "bad day". 

Quote from: Proposed Rule
If someone is banned for hacking and it's reported by the admin, they can be temporarily unbanned if contested.  This trial period will last for 12 playing hours.  During that trial they must record demos of all the time spent on our servers.  Every 3 playing hours they must immediately upload all demos to the forums.  They will then be judged by their peers and the admins, and justice will be handed out. 

If any one of the following happens the user can expect a spema:
  • Demos look fishy
  • Users' score drops during that period
  • User played for more than the permitted 12 hours
  • User did not upload a complete set of demos
  • User is not incredibly respectful
  • User is of foul or controversial character

BTW be nice boys, it's rare you have a bannee like Zeb who isn't a total ass. 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2008, 04:42:53 AM by Jedakiah » Logged

Labyrinthine
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Abuya?!?


« Reply #93 on: February 27, 2008, 08:08:52 AM »

Jed, you're totally missing the point that they could EASILY turn their hacks off for that short amount of time and be easily unbanned. Only an idiot would leave their hacks on while demoing to be submitted to a forum.
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Jedakiah
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« Reply #94 on: February 27, 2008, 10:48:39 AM »

Quote from: Proposed Rule
If any one of the following happens the user can expect a spema:
  • Demos look fishy
  • Users' score drops during that period
  • User played for more than the permitted 12 hours
  • User did not upload a complete set of demos
  • User is not incredibly respectful
  • User is of foul or controversial character
Stupid me. 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2008, 10:50:44 AM by Jedakiah » Logged

staby
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« Reply #95 on: February 27, 2008, 01:40:13 PM »

Good people can cheat too.

And, I was mostly being sarcastic.  I don't think that idea is feasible.
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Jedakiah
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« Reply #96 on: February 27, 2008, 02:14:45 PM »

True, but if cheating isn't improving his score any why should we care? 

It would be a bit hard to accomplish, I think primarily because of 12 hours worth of demos.  Not that we would review them all, or that only one person would be doing it.  But I think 6 hours is more realistic.  Is that why you were saying it wasn't feasible? 

It struck me as a tremendous idea because when a "hacker" is banned that is an educated guess at best.  And if we could be more fair in those decisions we should.  Like ZeB brought out if someone like frod came onto the server he would undoubtedly be banned, and at least half the people would be chanting "hacker".  Even if some of our skilled admins wouldn't ban one of the newer ones surely would. 

Like I said earlier but without proper emphasis, this is not something that we would do for just anyone.  Instead it would only be bans that were reported, and the user comes back and respectfully contests it.  I also added the contingency of them not having a "controversial" character, because it seems like a waste of time if we were to do that for someone like DeFy. 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2008, 02:16:17 PM by Jedakiah » Logged

Labyrinthine
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« Reply #97 on: February 27, 2008, 02:40:24 PM »

Quote from: Proposed Rule
If any one of the following happens the user can expect a spema:
  • Demos look fishy
  • Users' score drops during that period
  • User played for more than the permitted 12 hours
  • User did not upload a complete set of demos
  • User is not incredibly respectful
  • User is of foul or controversial character
Stupid me. 

As Jake said, good people can cheat too.

Really, unless a person is absolutely handicapped without his/her hacks (which would be a very obvious catch), then it would be very hard for a demo to prove anything.

In regards to the situation at hand, we more or less did what your bill proposes. He came in and appealed his ban, he uploaded demos, admins uploaded demos, we all watched the demos and came to a verdict. Then he proceeded to be rude to admins regarding his banning and brought up the whole illegal steam account stealing issue. So, under your bill, we did everything right:

The demos looked fishy
The user was not respectful
The user is controversial of character

---

As for the bill itself. If you want to watch 6 hours of demos every time someone contests a ban, then I'm all for the bill. Otherwise, it's a good idea but a logistical nightmare.
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Jedakiah
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« Reply #98 on: February 27, 2008, 05:02:18 PM »

Wow Laby, please read my posts carefully.  I might pack too many details into one area for speed reading.  Because it already address the logistical issues of 6 hours worth of demos, and not everyone would get a chance.  Also, I wasn't applying this idea to Zeb for I stopped reading on page 3.  Last but most importantly, please answer this question:
True, but if cheating isn't improving his score any why should we care? 
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Labyrinthine
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« Reply #99 on: February 27, 2008, 05:39:22 PM »

Wow Laby, please read my posts carefully.  I might pack too many details into one area for speed reading.  Because it already address the logistical issues of 6 hours worth of demos, and not everyone would get a chance.  Also, I wasn't applying this idea to Zeb for I stopped reading on page 3.  Last but most importantly, please answer this question:
True, but if cheating isn't improving his score any why should we care? 

I read your post Jed.

In fact I believe I read all parts pertaining to the viewing of demos

Quote from: Jed
It would be a bit hard to accomplish, I think primarily because of 12 hours worth of demos.  Not that we would review them all, or that only one person would be doing it.  But I think 6 hours is more realistic.  Is that why you were saying it wasn't feasible?

and

Quote from: Jed
If someone is banned for hacking and it's reported by the admin, they can be temporarily unbanned if contested.  This trial period will last for 12 playing hours.  During that trial they must record demos of all the time spent on our servers.  Every 3 playing hours they must immediately upload all demos to the forums.  They will then be judged by their peers and the admins, and justice will be handed out.

Maybe I should make myself a bit clearer:

I said
 
Quote
As for the bill itself. If you want to watch 6 hours of demos every time someone contests a ban, then I'm all for the bill. Otherwise, it's a good idea but a logistical nightmare.


Because I was trying to illustrate how ludicrous 6 hours of demos are. Regardless if you split them up between all the admins, no one wants to watch 6 hours of footage. Hence the reason that I said if you wanted to watch them go ahead, I can't see anyone else wanting to.

Also, why would we have them record them if you advocate that we wouldn't even watch all of them?

---

Moving right along.

True, but if cheating isn't improving his score any why should we care? 

Principle. It gives the player an unfair advantage over others. It's why steroids are banned in most sports.

Even if the player isn't benefiting from the hacks (which I seriously doubt is possible) the potential to benefit from them is always there. If I can go faster than other players, aim without trying, see through walls, hear people beyond my normal means, etc, I have a distinct advantage over the players who don't.

Allowing hacks for players who don't benefit from them but banning them from those who do is a complete and total double standard. Also, determining which players do benefit from hacks and those that don't would be terribly difficult and ambiguous. If you are going to allow some players to hack, you should allow all players to hack. It's unfair otherwise.
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Jedakiah
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« Reply #100 on: February 27, 2008, 06:02:07 PM »

Because I was trying to illustrate how ludicrous 6 hours of demos are. Regardless if you split them up between all the admins, no one wants to watch 6 hours of footage. Hence the reason that I said if you wanted to watch them go ahead, I can't see anyone else wanting to.

Also, why would we have them record them if you advocate that we wouldn't even watch all of them?
Laby, demos are uploaded here all the time and admins/people do watch them, this would not be different.  The only way it would be different is if a person was required to watch all 6 hours, which clearly isn't the case. 

Obviously they have to record their entire time on the server or it would be easy to take advantage.  Also the mere fact that they uploaded the entire set is good insurance against the user attempting to hack during obscure parts of the demos. 

As far as logistics goes, you'll have a few people reviewing multiple demos.  The entire trial does not need to be canvased by these people, instead each can review until he is satisfied that the user is or is not hacking.  At least that is how I envisioned it working. 

Principle...
And that is a fair reason to ban a person.  But it is not fair to lump skilled players and hackers together, then ban both.  And I'm quite positive this has happened on our server.  This bill would fix that problem, at the cost of possibly letting a skilled player continue to hack on our server because the hacks didn't help his game any.  I say that is a ridiculously good price to pay for significantly improved justice.
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halloween
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« Reply #101 on: February 27, 2008, 06:49:39 PM »

This f#$#$ thread is still active? gods, kill it already. 
i suggest we lock it, and perhaps continue our policy debate somewhere a little more private...
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« Reply #102 on: February 27, 2008, 08:31:32 PM »

I don't know about most of you but Jake initially banned this guy for hacking. Since the demos didn't prove beyond a shadow of the doubt that he was hacking, better yet failed to prove anything the said name banned person is being banned for 90 days due to disrespecting our admins. I don't think the "possible" hacking is part of the equation anymore.
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